Never a VALLey girl
Aug. 31st, 2003 03:25 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
40cakesUp until now, my biggest beef with the Virgin Anti-Lemon League has always been facetious: "Oh yeah? What about those people who've had SEX, and don't like lemons? HMMMM?"
Then I visited the site.
Just a few excerpts. And by few, I mean "a lot." All nasty comments are mine.
"The reason I would like to join is because at the age of thirteen I was exposed to my first lemon, A DBZ lemon. I don't remember what it was about, but after that I started reading more and more lemons even though it was wrong. I started reading yaoi and yuri lemons in all categories, and at one point even questioned my sexuality. Now, since getting a boyfriend I love dearly and since the banning of NC-17 fanfiction I have successfully rid myself of the urge to read and write lemons."
Sweetie, if a DRAGONBALL Z YURI FANFIC made you question your sexuality, and a boyfriend "made you see the light," I don't think you can blame that on Fanfiction.Net.
"I, myself, am a virgin, and damn proud. I’m what one would consider “under-aged” at 14 (15) years old. After reading so many lemons that were placed practically everywhere within stories, my knowledge of sexual interactions became far beyond than necessary."
When I was 17, I read a Sailor Moon het hentai fanfic that used the term "Royal Boxer Shorts," and involved Endymion having 17 orgasms within one sexual act. My reaction wasn't "Wow, my knowledge has increased..." My reaction was outright laughter. And pity for this author at her great feeling of disappointment one day. I don't read fanfic for sex tips, or for a glimpse of real sexual interactions. I can't imagine that anyone would look at fanfic for knowledge of real sexual interactions. And if you are, why, for God's sake, are you looking in a fandom about magical reincarnated girls with talking kitties? Even their footwear isn't realistic!
"Reading explicit things corrupts your thoughts; it can lead to different interpretations of what the author is trying to say."
"Vash expected a mint on his pillow and got an Insurance Girl instead. Smut." Now, maybe someone can misinterpret that and believe that the fic is about Vash turning to cannibalism, but once they actually read the story, I think they might get set straight. Or is this supposed to mean that if you read lemons, you think everyone and everything around you is having sex, and you write slash about anthropomorphic food items?
"As an author, you have to remember that your words are reaching people of ALL ages. There are 9 year olds that may read your work! Yes, there are people of proper age that read the lemons, but as a member of a matured age, they should respect the idea of sustaining an innocent mind."
"Lo, I am of a matured age, and I would like to peruse some erotica. What's this? There's none to be found on the internet? I am most forlorn. However, I must respect the idea of sustaining an innocent mind. Thus, I will slaughter children so that they may not be tainted by the throes of passion. Cheerio."
"I don't read lemons. The closest you'll get me to one is skipping over the sex part to read the rest of a story thats good in it's own right. But you know what I think? And this may sound very crazy, but it sort of feels like it's an invasion of the characters privacy. I mean really, if it were you would you want a bunch of sexcrazed people watching you? Really I don't see how anyone can read them and not feel embarassed for the people in them."
Invasion of the characters' privacy. The fictional characters. THE PEOPLE WHO AREN'T REAL. No, I wouldn't want a bunch of sexcrazed people watching me have sex. I'M A REAL PERSON.
"If you cannot write a “romance” fan fiction without using sex as a hook then you have no business writing romance fan fictions."
Who says sex has to be romantic? The word "fuck" was invented for a reason.
"[About NC-17 fics in fandoms aimed at children]Let me tell you, one of the first things a pedophile will do to a child they want to use for sexual gratification is slowly introduce that child to pornography. Children who are routinely exposed to pornography (either by being exposed to it by an adult or looking at it on their own) begin to lose their resistance to sexual activity and experimentation, especially if that child is shown pornography by an adult they trust. They start to think it is normal and when that adult begins to touch them inappropriately, they are less likely to think that what the adult is doing is wrong (the child will instead begin to think there is something wrong with them)."
Posting smut=molesting children. Right. Got it.
"One last thing: I am sick to death of hearing people complain about the NC-17 ban at FF.net and blaming bad parenting for the loss of their right to post smut. That has got to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Listen, if parents weren’t paying attention to what their kids were looking at on the computer, FF.net never would have banned NC-17 fics. No one complains about something they don’t know is happening. Obviously, these parents were doing their job and supervising their children. By doing so, they saw that when little Jessica was looking for another good “JUST IN” Dragonball Z fic to read there were NC-17 fics right next to the rated PG and G ones. Like I said, these parents had to be supervising their kids if they complained. It's the parents that don't supervise that don't complain. Do you think these kids printed off these NC-17 fics and showed them to their parents? When you did something "bad" as a kid (and I think we can all agree that reading NC-17 rated material when you're under 17 is considered a no-no in most households), did you wave it in front of your parent's face? I didn't. I went to great pains to hide that kind of stuff. My parents had to be proactive to catch me doing, watching, reading, and/or listening to something I shouldn't. That's good parenting, kids."
Actually, good parenting is talking to your children about their new little habit, telling them what you think about it, and, if they're mature enough, letting them make their own decisions about it. Not ruining the fun for everyone because you can't be bothered to send your 13-year-old the "No Smut" memo.
And then, my personal favourite member, Tenshi Sasher. She has a lot to say. Take it away, Angel.
"Are we truly aware that there are kids under TWELVE years of age who write lemon without (Dear Lord I certainly hope not with) sexual experiences? Their writing unconfirmed, tainted, immature and skewed versions of intercourse, and actually being PRAISED for it?"
I'm more disturbed by middle schoolers with shitty grammar than 12 year old virgins testing sexy waters through fanfic.
"Are we actually willing to accept that there are kids who haven't hit puberty yet that are hard-core PORNOGRAPHERS? I mean, call me old fashioned but when I was growing up (Mind you I still am, being 16 years of age, I'm not exactly ancient yet) I always visioned pornographers to be fifty-something perverted old men who had nothing better to do than to jack off in front of a picture of some slutty well-endowed teen in the dark privacy of their own room."
You're wrong on that. A pornographer creates the pornography. That's different from someone who just reaps its pleasures.
"When did that mental illustration go from Dirty Old Man to Little Boy Next Door? Little Brother? Little Sister? Pre-pubecent Kid That Comes To Your Place Of Employment To Buy Candy Everyday? Are we willing to allow these authors to taint their virtue before they even lose their virginity? Or will we just accept the fact that there is nothing we can do, and let justice run it's own course?"
"Justice run its own course?" No! The Children cannot question sexuality! They may not be curious about anything! Their innocence MUST be kept in tact until their wedding night, where, like Anne of Cleves, the fourth wife of Henry VIII, they will enter their bedchambers, knowing nothing of sex, and their new spouse will awkwardly feel them up before rolling over and going to sleep! Damn the authors of smut! Damn them to Hell!
"I had always taken into account that lemons could have EXTREME potential to damage and taint someone's view of sexual relations, especially younger readers."
In the third grade, we went to the library and had a lesson about Fiction=Fake, Non-fiction=Real. And then we had some basic sex ed sometime in middle school. And my mother always answered any questions I had, no matter how bizarre, and didn't think twice about buying me books that explained sexual interactions. These powers combined summon the power known as "Not Reading Smutty Fanfic to Find Out About Sex."
"As for lemon in a fiction, in my professional opinion it degrades the writing and throws dirt on the purity of the gradual romance that is constantly evolving."
What about canon sex? Or did you skip that chapter in the Sailor Moon manga? Miss that episode of Trigun? What about the writing in La Blue Girl? How can one throw dirt on the purity of that wonderful story? It throws more dirt on the "purity" of the original to write bad out of character stories that may not involve sex at all.
"It also, to me, indicates that the love is not as strong as the writer would like to pass it off for being. Don't get me wrong, I believe that is you truthfully love someone with all of your heart, and are MARRIED, that sex shouldn't only be great, but expected. I know that if I was married and we weren't doing anything, I would have serious doubts about my husband's interests in me."
So, true love can survive anything, even chastity, IN A FICTIONAL WORLD, until marriage. But after marriage, y'all betta be puttin' out, otherwise, it's a trip to divorce court? Isn't that a skewed view?
"So yes, in a fiction, sex is an extremely hard thing to avoid, especially in the romance genre. However, if you are mature about it and take into consideration the well-being of your younger readers (whether appropriatley rated or not) I believe that you will see just what is acceptable and what is not."
My fandom is rated "16 and up." When it was on TV, it was on a cable network that didn't even advertise the show until 11pm. Then, the show was only on at midnight or afterwards, on school nights. If there's a 12 year old totally into my show, they're mature enough that their parents have allowed them to stay up late and watch, or bought them the $30 DVDs. Or, their parents don't give a rat's ass what they do, and my smut isn't going to turn them into a serial rapist.
"Bucky can write a fiction that is so romantically involved and captivating that you wouldn't believe that you weren't living in the role of the main character. Her themes are more adult-aimed, as some of her fictions do deal with the subjects of date and attempted rape. But she takes her role as author seriously, and therefore negates information that could scar one's innocence."
Wait, wait, wait. Sex is bad, but date rape is good? Because it's serious? And I don't care about scarring innocence, "negating information" just sounds like a Bad Thing. "You can't get pregnant from rape! In fact, any time you even look at a boy, he's thinking about raping you. You should be home-schooled until your parents arrange your marriage."
"And I don't mind the innuendos of what is going to transpire, or what has already happened between two characters physically....as long as their not of the same gender. No offense to you fans or participants of slash, but I can't handle it. It is not something I was raised to believe in or promote, so I simply don't. That doesn't mean I hate or belittle you, it simply means that where our similarities have run parallel, they fork, and that is all. I will still continue to treat you as an equal, but as an equal who's opinions I don't believe in. That's all."
So let's get this...erm, straight. Date rape is good. Consensual, romantic sex between fictional characters outside of marriage is bad, and taints teh Children. But INNUENDOES of homosexuality trumps them all as the ultimate evil?!
There's plenty more where this came from, and I'm lazy. Here's the rest of the opinions. Check out Tomako Briefs (I think it's Eric Kudapow!) and their definitions. And![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
jaina gets mentioned by millyfan!
Oy vey. And as I toldcrisischick81, these people aren't prudes so much as deranged. Most of them are anti-lemon because they believed everything they've read and have been sorely disappointed.
...
Ha ha!
>^..^
Then I visited the site.
Just a few excerpts. And by few, I mean "a lot." All nasty comments are mine.
"The reason I would like to join is because at the age of thirteen I was exposed to my first lemon, A DBZ lemon. I don't remember what it was about, but after that I started reading more and more lemons even though it was wrong. I started reading yaoi and yuri lemons in all categories, and at one point even questioned my sexuality. Now, since getting a boyfriend I love dearly and since the banning of NC-17 fanfiction I have successfully rid myself of the urge to read and write lemons."
Sweetie, if a DRAGONBALL Z YURI FANFIC made you question your sexuality, and a boyfriend "made you see the light," I don't think you can blame that on Fanfiction.Net.
"I, myself, am a virgin, and damn proud. I’m what one would consider “under-aged” at 14 (15) years old. After reading so many lemons that were placed practically everywhere within stories, my knowledge of sexual interactions became far beyond than necessary."
When I was 17, I read a Sailor Moon het hentai fanfic that used the term "Royal Boxer Shorts," and involved Endymion having 17 orgasms within one sexual act. My reaction wasn't "Wow, my knowledge has increased..." My reaction was outright laughter. And pity for this author at her great feeling of disappointment one day. I don't read fanfic for sex tips, or for a glimpse of real sexual interactions. I can't imagine that anyone would look at fanfic for knowledge of real sexual interactions. And if you are, why, for God's sake, are you looking in a fandom about magical reincarnated girls with talking kitties? Even their footwear isn't realistic!
"Reading explicit things corrupts your thoughts; it can lead to different interpretations of what the author is trying to say."
"Vash expected a mint on his pillow and got an Insurance Girl instead. Smut." Now, maybe someone can misinterpret that and believe that the fic is about Vash turning to cannibalism, but once they actually read the story, I think they might get set straight. Or is this supposed to mean that if you read lemons, you think everyone and everything around you is having sex, and you write slash about anthropomorphic food items?
"As an author, you have to remember that your words are reaching people of ALL ages. There are 9 year olds that may read your work! Yes, there are people of proper age that read the lemons, but as a member of a matured age, they should respect the idea of sustaining an innocent mind."
"Lo, I am of a matured age, and I would like to peruse some erotica. What's this? There's none to be found on the internet? I am most forlorn. However, I must respect the idea of sustaining an innocent mind. Thus, I will slaughter children so that they may not be tainted by the throes of passion. Cheerio."
"I don't read lemons. The closest you'll get me to one is skipping over the sex part to read the rest of a story thats good in it's own right. But you know what I think? And this may sound very crazy, but it sort of feels like it's an invasion of the characters privacy. I mean really, if it were you would you want a bunch of sexcrazed people watching you? Really I don't see how anyone can read them and not feel embarassed for the people in them."
Invasion of the characters' privacy. The fictional characters. THE PEOPLE WHO AREN'T REAL. No, I wouldn't want a bunch of sexcrazed people watching me have sex. I'M A REAL PERSON.
"If you cannot write a “romance” fan fiction without using sex as a hook then you have no business writing romance fan fictions."
Who says sex has to be romantic? The word "fuck" was invented for a reason.
"[About NC-17 fics in fandoms aimed at children]Let me tell you, one of the first things a pedophile will do to a child they want to use for sexual gratification is slowly introduce that child to pornography. Children who are routinely exposed to pornography (either by being exposed to it by an adult or looking at it on their own) begin to lose their resistance to sexual activity and experimentation, especially if that child is shown pornography by an adult they trust. They start to think it is normal and when that adult begins to touch them inappropriately, they are less likely to think that what the adult is doing is wrong (the child will instead begin to think there is something wrong with them)."
Posting smut=molesting children. Right. Got it.
"One last thing: I am sick to death of hearing people complain about the NC-17 ban at FF.net and blaming bad parenting for the loss of their right to post smut. That has got to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Listen, if parents weren’t paying attention to what their kids were looking at on the computer, FF.net never would have banned NC-17 fics. No one complains about something they don’t know is happening. Obviously, these parents were doing their job and supervising their children. By doing so, they saw that when little Jessica was looking for another good “JUST IN” Dragonball Z fic to read there were NC-17 fics right next to the rated PG and G ones. Like I said, these parents had to be supervising their kids if they complained. It's the parents that don't supervise that don't complain. Do you think these kids printed off these NC-17 fics and showed them to their parents? When you did something "bad" as a kid (and I think we can all agree that reading NC-17 rated material when you're under 17 is considered a no-no in most households), did you wave it in front of your parent's face? I didn't. I went to great pains to hide that kind of stuff. My parents had to be proactive to catch me doing, watching, reading, and/or listening to something I shouldn't. That's good parenting, kids."
Actually, good parenting is talking to your children about their new little habit, telling them what you think about it, and, if they're mature enough, letting them make their own decisions about it. Not ruining the fun for everyone because you can't be bothered to send your 13-year-old the "No Smut" memo.
And then, my personal favourite member, Tenshi Sasher. She has a lot to say. Take it away, Angel.
"Are we truly aware that there are kids under TWELVE years of age who write lemon without (Dear Lord I certainly hope not with) sexual experiences? Their writing unconfirmed, tainted, immature and skewed versions of intercourse, and actually being PRAISED for it?"
I'm more disturbed by middle schoolers with shitty grammar than 12 year old virgins testing sexy waters through fanfic.
"Are we actually willing to accept that there are kids who haven't hit puberty yet that are hard-core PORNOGRAPHERS? I mean, call me old fashioned but when I was growing up (Mind you I still am, being 16 years of age, I'm not exactly ancient yet) I always visioned pornographers to be fifty-something perverted old men who had nothing better to do than to jack off in front of a picture of some slutty well-endowed teen in the dark privacy of their own room."
You're wrong on that. A pornographer creates the pornography. That's different from someone who just reaps its pleasures.
"When did that mental illustration go from Dirty Old Man to Little Boy Next Door? Little Brother? Little Sister? Pre-pubecent Kid That Comes To Your Place Of Employment To Buy Candy Everyday? Are we willing to allow these authors to taint their virtue before they even lose their virginity? Or will we just accept the fact that there is nothing we can do, and let justice run it's own course?"
"Justice run its own course?" No! The Children cannot question sexuality! They may not be curious about anything! Their innocence MUST be kept in tact until their wedding night, where, like Anne of Cleves, the fourth wife of Henry VIII, they will enter their bedchambers, knowing nothing of sex, and their new spouse will awkwardly feel them up before rolling over and going to sleep! Damn the authors of smut! Damn them to Hell!
"I had always taken into account that lemons could have EXTREME potential to damage and taint someone's view of sexual relations, especially younger readers."
In the third grade, we went to the library and had a lesson about Fiction=Fake, Non-fiction=Real. And then we had some basic sex ed sometime in middle school. And my mother always answered any questions I had, no matter how bizarre, and didn't think twice about buying me books that explained sexual interactions. These powers combined summon the power known as "Not Reading Smutty Fanfic to Find Out About Sex."
"As for lemon in a fiction, in my professional opinion it degrades the writing and throws dirt on the purity of the gradual romance that is constantly evolving."
What about canon sex? Or did you skip that chapter in the Sailor Moon manga? Miss that episode of Trigun? What about the writing in La Blue Girl? How can one throw dirt on the purity of that wonderful story? It throws more dirt on the "purity" of the original to write bad out of character stories that may not involve sex at all.
"It also, to me, indicates that the love is not as strong as the writer would like to pass it off for being. Don't get me wrong, I believe that is you truthfully love someone with all of your heart, and are MARRIED, that sex shouldn't only be great, but expected. I know that if I was married and we weren't doing anything, I would have serious doubts about my husband's interests in me."
So, true love can survive anything, even chastity, IN A FICTIONAL WORLD, until marriage. But after marriage, y'all betta be puttin' out, otherwise, it's a trip to divorce court? Isn't that a skewed view?
"So yes, in a fiction, sex is an extremely hard thing to avoid, especially in the romance genre. However, if you are mature about it and take into consideration the well-being of your younger readers (whether appropriatley rated or not) I believe that you will see just what is acceptable and what is not."
My fandom is rated "16 and up." When it was on TV, it was on a cable network that didn't even advertise the show until 11pm. Then, the show was only on at midnight or afterwards, on school nights. If there's a 12 year old totally into my show, they're mature enough that their parents have allowed them to stay up late and watch, or bought them the $30 DVDs. Or, their parents don't give a rat's ass what they do, and my smut isn't going to turn them into a serial rapist.
"Bucky can write a fiction that is so romantically involved and captivating that you wouldn't believe that you weren't living in the role of the main character. Her themes are more adult-aimed, as some of her fictions do deal with the subjects of date and attempted rape. But she takes her role as author seriously, and therefore negates information that could scar one's innocence."
Wait, wait, wait. Sex is bad, but date rape is good? Because it's serious? And I don't care about scarring innocence, "negating information" just sounds like a Bad Thing. "You can't get pregnant from rape! In fact, any time you even look at a boy, he's thinking about raping you. You should be home-schooled until your parents arrange your marriage."
"And I don't mind the innuendos of what is going to transpire, or what has already happened between two characters physically....as long as their not of the same gender. No offense to you fans or participants of slash, but I can't handle it. It is not something I was raised to believe in or promote, so I simply don't. That doesn't mean I hate or belittle you, it simply means that where our similarities have run parallel, they fork, and that is all. I will still continue to treat you as an equal, but as an equal who's opinions I don't believe in. That's all."
So let's get this...erm, straight. Date rape is good. Consensual, romantic sex between fictional characters outside of marriage is bad, and taints teh Children. But INNUENDOES of homosexuality trumps them all as the ultimate evil?!
There's plenty more where this came from, and I'm lazy. Here's the rest of the opinions. Check out Tomako Briefs (I think it's Eric Kudapow!) and their definitions. And
jaina gets mentioned by millyfan! Oy vey. And as I told
crisischick81, these people aren't prudes so much as deranged. Most of them are anti-lemon because they believed everything they've read and have been sorely disappointed. ...
Ha ha!
>^..^
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2003-08-31 09:01 am (UTC)*reads*
Okay. I'm not sure whether to laugh or roll my eyes that she mentioned Misconception because, get this--it's not a lemon.
Jesus Christ on a pogo stick.
no subject
Date: 2003-08-31 09:06 am (UTC)Millyfan is SO TOTALLY AnonymousTrigunOtaku, the girl who keeps IMing me and wanting to finish other people's fics and such. Snort.
no subject
Date: 2003-08-31 09:34 am (UTC)I really think I know Tomako Briefs. The whole part about "I had a porn addiction" just makes me think I know him...
>^..^
no subject
Date: 2003-08-31 07:00 pm (UTC)Sheesh. Some people just need to get laid, all right?
no subject
Date: 2003-08-31 09:28 am (UTC)>^..^
shame on me, shame shame.
Date: 2003-08-31 10:20 am (UTC)Re: shame on me, shame shame.
Date: 2003-08-31 10:37 am (UTC)Er, actually... a lemon is a fanfiction of a sexual nature. No, I don't have any idea where that term came from.
>^..^
Re: shame on me, shame shame.
Date: 2003-08-31 04:37 pm (UTC)VALL
Date: 2003-08-31 08:17 pm (UTC)Re: VALL
Date: 2003-08-31 10:07 pm (UTC)Then again, if that were true, we would have no need for snark.